Ruan, They/Them | Cas! Coded Dean Girl | Graphics Maker | Castiel/Dean/Destiel centric blog | 18+
I’m sorry but if you are going to take things out of context without having read the journal yourself, your opinion does not matter. I don’t care if you hate him and you are allowed to but don’t be an asshole and don’t add hate to posts.
#okAY MORE JOURNAL ENTRIES THAT JUST HURT MORE THAN ANYTHING #i still dont like john winchester #not because of his inability to give them ‘normal’ lives per say #but just #he screwed them up emotionally and mentally #and who knows what he did when he was drunk #dean certainly seems to have the obedience thing down #and jesus christ if he wasn’t neglectful i don’t know what he was #(whispers also dean saved his brother and father’s life when he was eight years old) #(whispers eight fucking years old) #(sobs i love you bb) #spn
Okay, darling, first of all I said do not add hate to posts, that makes you in fact incredibly RUDE. If you wish to express your dislike of this character it would be simple to make your OWN text post and link this one to yours. Let me tell you something though, John only started to train Dean at such a young age because the boy WANTED to learn, he had the protective instinct in him, he FELT like he should protect Sam and John.
Dean was mentally screwed up from the moment Mary died, he saw the fire and he knew his mother was gone. John only took the boy’s interest and shaped him, trained him because he [John] feared he might get killed and they needed to learn to survive. He trained them like soldiers but loved them like HIS sons, there is no doubt about that. Dean was obedient because HE wanted to be, he could have rebelled against John like Sam did, but that was not in him, he’d restrained himself since a child.
And two, John was on the road too much to be a constant drunk, yes, he drank but he did it to forget not to take his anger out on the boys.
If you remember one of the special kids like Sam whose mother also died in a fire, Max Miller from season one, his father BLAMED him for his wife’s death and abused him until Max killed him. John NEVER blamed Sam, never beat him up telling him it was his fault Mary was dead. Instead he focused that anger and grief on the demon that was ALSO HUNTING SAM.
Sam Winchester: Well, I’ll tell you one thing. We’re lucky we had Dad.
Dean Winchester: (surprised) Well I never thought I’d hear you say that.
Sam Winchester: Well, he could’ve gone a whole other way after Mom. A little more tequila, a little less demon hunting, and we would’ve had Max’s childhood. All things considered, we turned out okay. Thanks to him.
Dean Winchester: (nods) All things considered.
So don’t fucking tell me John abused those boys, yes he left them for hunts but with people he trusted until they were old enough to take care of themselves. That is not abuse, nor physical nor emotional. Now, if you have evidence that John mentally abused them or physically, I will need you to let me see it. Thank you.
To me this is one of the worst parts of the Supernatural fandom. John Winchester was a dick of a father, absolutely. But when fans make it out as though he would torture his kids… when you make it out that he wouldn’t care about his kid’s well-being if they broke down into tears… I say fuck you. John Winchester pushed his boys, Dean especially, much too hard much too early. But if you think John was capable of putting his kids in a situation where he didn’t care about how it affected them in any way other than their eventual survival? Fuck you.
This is just my opinion, but I think the whole point is that we know very little about John Winchester. We’ve been given little snippets of his life and how he treated the boys, but we know that wasn’t around to take care of them. To me, that is a form of abuse. If a baby is left alone it will die, from lack of human interaction. Though John may (I say “may” because let’s be honest it’s fairly ambiguous just how much or how little John watched out for his kids’ needs) have provided the basic necessities, what the boys really needed the become normal, fully-functional adults, is love. I’m not saying people without love are weird or abnormal, but that it’s much more difficult for them to relate to people. I can only imagine how different both Dean and Sam would be if they had truly experienced the love and guidance of their father. Again, he may have loved them. There’s no firm proof to say he didn’t. But John Winchester cared more about himself and his rage and his desire for revenge than he did about the welfare of his two children. While his loss is tragic, and his rage and mourning understandable, John Winchester is not excused for his actions. Those boys needed a father. And dammit, he wasn’t there. That’s abuse. Plain and simple. Just because he didn’t physically… wait a second, he did! John had his kids shooting and training and learning how to be a hunter before they could throw a football. He pushed them, physically, to the extreme. Not to mention the emotional abuse he put the boys through. Dean, any time he made one tiny mistake, or Sammy ran away again. Sam, for desiring a different lifestyle, for seeking it out. Instead John used the whole “how dare you leave us” line. Yes, it might have been rude of Sam to do so. But at some point your life becomes your own; Sam had to take charge of his own future at some point, otherwise his father would control him forever. John Winchester claimed to value “family” more than anything; so why didn’t he care for the family he had?
I’m going to join in now :)
This is just my opinion, but I think the whole point is that we know very little about John Winchester. We’ve been given little snippets of his life and how he treated the boys, but we know that wasn’t around to take care of them.
I do agree that we know very little about John, and that’s probably why the majority of the fandom doesn’t connect with him as strongly as they do with say, Bobby. It’s hard to relate to someone you barely know! On the flipside, it’s also not fair to hate someone (and this isn’t directed at YOU, specifically, just in general) just based on your own headcanons you created in place of what we were shown.
I would very much beg to differ with the assumption that “John wasn’t around to take care” of Sam and Dean. In Dean’s own words, last season, he stated that while John wasn’t perfect (because he has come a long way in acknowledging his dad’s many flaws) he was “always there”. And I mean as children. I’m not talking about what happened in S1, because while it was shitty, they were also adults.
John did leave them at times, either with Bobby or Jim, or for a few days in a motel by themselves. That is not abuse. Some could say it’s lousy parenting, but it was also parenting under extreme circumstances. Single parents have been making tough decisions about childcare for years, and most people are understanding. Sometimes the 10-year-old has to look after the 6-year-old for a little while. I would never do that to my children, but I have the luxury of not being forced to, either. There was a time, not that long ago, when that would’ve been perfectly normal!
In fact, I think it’s likely John was left alone as a child, considering after his father disappeared his mother would be raising him by herself. So it’s not ideal, but it’s also not plain out abuse. We’re not talking about weeks on end here, just 1-2 days. That’s all we were ever shown when he left them as children.
John Winchester cared more about himself and his rage and his desire for revenge than he did about the welfare of his two children. While his loss is tragic, and his rage and mourning understandable, John Winchester is not excused for his actions.
I just can’t disagree more with this… I’m not saying John didn’t want revenge at all, because clearly he did, but that was not all his hunt was about. Sam and Dean lost any chance at having a normal life the moment Azazel walked into Sam’s nursery. If John had raised them “normal”, they never would’ve stood a chance. They had to learn how to survive. And John wanted to find out who or what killed Mary, because he had every reason to believe it would be back for Sam later. And it was.
Am I saying he didn’t make mistakes? Absolutely not. There were a lot of things John could’ve done better. But I don’t think it’s accurate to say he was fueled only by revenge and rage. More like those things, and fear, and love, the need to protect his famiy. In the end, he gave up his only chance at revenge to save Dean.
Just because he didn’t physically… wait a second, he did! John had his kids shooting and training and learning how to be a hunter before they could throw a football.
That is NOT physical abuse. I’m sorry, but just…. no. Again, you could call it crappy parenting, but that doesn’t make it abuse. I learned how to shoot before I learned how to read :)
Furthermore, John also tried to give them chances at being normal. Playing catch with Dean, letting Sam perform in school plays, Christmas (at least until Sam was 8-9, referencing the S3 episode) birthday parties, and so on. If you haven’t read his journal, I highly recommend it!
John Winchester claimed to value “family” more than anything; so why didn’t he care for the family he had?
Family was #1 in John’s book, but he didn’t always show it. And that’s a fault of his, to be sure. He should not have pushed Sam away when he went to school, but he didn’t do it because he didn’t care, he did it because he cared TOO much. He was terrified, and so he lashed out in anger. Much like Sam and Dean do.
John was FAR from perfect. Believe me, I’m not trying to say he’s Father of the Year or anything like that. But he was their father, and they loved him, and he loved them, and that is something that should never be doubted.
I’m sorry but if you are going to take things out of context without having read the journal yourself, your opinion does not matter. I don’t care if you hate him and you are allowed to but don’t be an asshole and don’t add hate to posts.
submitted by: novakist
I’m just gonna drop off these excerpts from John’s journal, I think everyone should read it (:
“this new life is a school and I’ll flunk out if I don’t have good notes [his journal]. Only if I flunk out of this school, I’ll be dead. And the boys will be orphans. [Page 1] I want my wife back. Oh God, I want her back… I thought at first that we would stay. [Page 2] Mike and Kate helped me take care of the boys at first, and Julie’s been great too, but I tried to tell them—tell Mike—what I think happened that night. He just looked at me, this look … like he’s sure I’m crazy. He must have told Kate something too. Out of nowhere she said the next morning, I should think about seeing a shrink. How can I talk to a stranger about this? I never saw a shrink for everything I went through in the Marines, and I got through that. My friends think I’m going insane. Who knows, maybe I am … [Page 2]
Dean still hardly talks. I try to make small talk, or ask him if he wants to throw the baseball around. Anything to make him feel like a normal kid again. He never budges from my side—or from his brother. Every morning when I wake up, Dean is inside the crib, arms wrapped around baby Sam. Like he’s trying to protect him from whatever is out there in the night.” [Page 3] John did care about his children despite his raw grief, despite being homeless and he did try to live a normal life with the boys in the beginning but it wasn’t the same, he was paranoid (with every right to be) of what killed Mary might be after them: “She (Missouri) had a vision, and we found a bloody mess in a neighbor’s house along with the words ‘WE’RE COMING FOR THE CHILDREN’ written in blood. I don’t remember anything between that and finding Sam and safe back at Julie’s, thank God, but Julie …was dead. Something just tore her apart. Missouri found a tooth in her body, I tried to draw it but can’t draw. I took the boys, said good-bye to Missouri, and got the hell out of Lawrence. If I never go back, it’ll be too soon.” [Page 4]
“The hellhound—that’s what Fletcher calls it—came out of a crypt and it tore holes in him like I haven’t seen in a human being since Vietnam.” (proves that he was dealing with trauma and PSTD before Mary was killed)
May 2 [Page 100] Sammy is ten years old today. It was a lousy day, for him and me. He’s on a soccer team, and he’s pretty good, and today was a game day. But it’s only a game, and on Saturdays we always do some kind of shooting now that they’re both big enough. Today it was bow hunting. Nothing’s in season, so we were just going target shooting, but it’s important. They need to know everything, every way to kill the enemy that’s out there. For Christ’s sake, there are demons after Sammy. He needs to know how to fight them, and Dean needs to know how to protect him. Sammy’s a kid, though, and he wants to play soccer. He’s even more stubborn than I am when he really decides to dig in his heels. But I’m their father, and we went out with the bows. I can’t blame him for wanting a normal life, but I wouldn’t be much of a dad if I didn’t prepare them for the world they’re living in. Doing what’s right for your kids doesn’t always mean doing what they want. Especially in my case.
just a few things I gathered
besides Sam and Dean, John Winchester wanted a daughter. I think I’ll go set myself on fire.
Mary, you know I would never leave the boys with strangers I couldn’t trust. You know that, right? I never would.
important objects in the boys lives:
the impala, john’s journal, and ruby’s knife
fabulecki-deactivated20150216:
Actual artist John Winchester.
Bonus! Dean and Sam’s artistry:
